DHS H3 vs Yasaka Rakza Z

[Choosikick]

Since I made the first post I have a hard boosted H3 prov OS 39 on a blade. It’s boosted with 3 fairly fat layers of seamon (the standard one). That worked great. It’s faster and with more spin. I still get easier access to power with the Rakza Z but I shot long a lot and the H3 just feels fantastic now. The grip is so good it’s almost impossible to miss the table from position 2 when I hit hard, but I’m starting to get a shoulder ache 😫. I can’t hit so hard all the time 🤬
I think I will go H3 for the rest of the season anyway and maybe experiment a little more during summer.

Cheers
L-zr

I also successfully play the forehand only with sticky chinese rubbers J2, J3, N-80, H3 plus a booster, and with N-80 also baby oil. But there is a nuance. This is a change in the properties of rubber under the booster over time. When you play regularly, this is not a problem, because in a short period of time the properties change slightly and it is easy to adapt to this, but when there are breaks in the game, then during this time the changes in properties are dramatic for me. Now I’m forced, like in the good old days, to booster a day in advance and glue it before the game...

 

[Lazer]

I also successfully play the forehand only with sticky chinese rubbers J2, J3, N-80, H3 plus a booster, and with N-80 also baby oil. But there is a nuance. This is a change in the properties of rubber under the booster over time. When you play regularly, this is not a problem, because in a short period of time the properties change slightly and it is easy to adapt to this, but when there are breaks in the game, then during this time the changes in properties are dramatic for me. Now I’m forced, like in the good old days, to booster a day in advance and glue it before the game...

It’s all in your head, when boosting with oil it’s mostly the mechanical action of playing that wears on the sponge. The booster oil doesn’t really evaporate. It resolves and becomes part of the sponge. My boosted H3 was sitting for weeks on my shelf without anything happening. It not like before where you had to play before the VOC’s dissapeared. There is of course a chemical reaction going on so I don’t know what will happen if it sits too long like a year or so. I have another blade with a boosted Bloom power and it isn’t played much and reacts pretty much the same as 6 months ago.

Cheers
L-zr

 

[Choosikick]

It’s all in your head, when boosting with oil it’s mostly the mechanical action of playing that wears on the sponge. The booster oil doesn’t really evaporate. It resolves and becomes part of the sponge. My boosted H3 was sitting for weeks on my shelf without anything happening. It not like before where you had to play before the VOC’s dissapeared. There is of course a chemical reaction going on so I don’t know what will happen if it sits too long like a year or so. I have another blade with a boosted Bloom power and it isn’t played much and reacts pretty much the same as 6 months ago.

Cheers
L-zr

Changes occur in fact and not in my mind, since the rubber, the edges of which I cut off after the boost, becomes smaller over time.

 

[NextLevel]

I have switched to K3 on the forehand in the meanwhile, but still took your advice to hit through the incoming topspin ball. This leads to an issue though: the old technique with a very closed bat would lead me to "outspinning" the opponent so that his shot or block would go wide. Now with the hitting through the incoming ball the resulting ball is very easy to block for my opponents if I don't place it well. It seems like this technique produces the exact ratio of spin and power that people are used to block by default, so they can easily block it, if they are positioned well.

I actually get a lot of spin with that shot and also have the option to countersmash as well. It is really about how you approach the ball , you can brush it it heavily without closing the paddle too much. But if your closed swing works for you keep doing it. I usually add quite a bit of side contact to the shot.

In my philosophy In table tennis, you should accept that of your opponent can touch the ball, the ball is coming back, if you are trying to win with ball quality and your closing the paddle works for you, then keep doing it. In my experience, a lot of balls overshoot the table and get racket edged, so it is more important to have technique that works under pressure.

 

[Sims33]

Hey guys, anyone glued a regular RZ (2.0mm) to a limba-limba-ayous 5-ply allwood blade like the Xiom Offensive S? Wondering how it plays and how long it lasts.

My Rozena forehand feels like it's lost a bunch of grip lately, maybe 30-40%. Been using it for about 2 months, playing 3-5 days a week for 2-3 hours each time (half drilling, half games). Is this normal wear and tear for Rozena? Looking for a more durable alternative that plays similarly, and the regular RZ 2.0mm is my top pick right now. Love Rozena, but replacing it too often hurts the wallet! LOL

Hi
I've been playing Rakza Z max on a Yasaka Silverline All Wood blade for 18mths now. I used the first sheet 6 hrs a week for 12 months and it still performed very well.
It had lost its 'tack' after 6 mths but it seemed the sponge had softened somewhat from all the use that I could still get the same spin from the rubber and it's still super grippy. I could have got another 6mths out of it I reckon so I'd say it holds up VERY well.
I changed it for a new one and it took a while to break that rubber in, relatively hard sponge.
I don't know anything about Rozena but if you enjoy looping then I can't imagine you'll hate Rakza Z.

 

[Kopp]

Hi
I've been playing Rakza Z max on a Yasaka Silverline All Wood blade for 18mths now. I used the first sheet 6 hrs a week for 12 months and it still performed very well.
It had lost its 'tack' after 6 mths but it seemed the sponge had softened somewhat from all the use that I could still get the same spin from the rubber and it's still super grippy. I could have got another 6mths out of it I reckon so I'd say it holds up VERY well.
I changed it for a new one and it took a while to break that rubber in, relatively hard sponge.
I don't know anything about Rozena but if you enjoy looping then I can't imagine you'll hate Rakza Z.

Thanks!

One thought I had was to save money by buying a regular tacky Chinese rubber e.g. H3 or 739 Battle II and boosting it myself. However, I'm unsure if this achieves the same results as a factory-boosted Hybrid rubber (Rakza Z or equivalent).

 

[Sims33]

Thanks!

One thought I had was to save money by buying a regular tacky Chinese rubber e.g. H3 or 739 Battle II and boosting it myself. However, I'm unsure if this achieves the same results as a factory-boosted Hybrid rubber (Rakza Z or equivalent).

You could try the Yinhe Jupiter Asia III or Big Dipper, they are factory boosted. You can also boost them again if you want to.
I bought both of these last month but haven't tried them yet, league season finishes tonight so I'll be trying one next week.
They were €15 each on Ali Express and have pretty good ratings in here.
I'll let you know how it goes but will be a few wks before I review.

About Rakza Z, I never mentioned how it plays. It's not very fast but I find this a good thing as I'm still working on my loop technique. It has lots of spin and control and that's all I need at my level as I can build my points and win it with the next shot when my accuracy is good.
I find it great for FH drive and fast pushes too. Service return and short game is good, lots of control once you're used to it. Serving also good, spinny.
I have found that when my FH 'whip' is executed properly (like really properly) that there IS speed in the rubber also. It will always be slower than the more exotic rubbers mentioned but you can win the point with it and I've managed it a few times V high level opposition.
I have it in Max sponge so I don't feel any bottoming out. It definitely takes a bit of breaking in for the sponge but that's normal with a lot of rubbers.

I have high hopes for the Yinhe JA 3 and Big Dipper so I'm hoping not to have to buy any more €45 sheets of Rakza Z. If one of these Yinhes works like I hope I'll be delighted to be shopping in the €15 category 🤞😊

 

[NextLevel]

You could try the Yinhe Jupiter Asia III or Big Dipper, they are factory boosted. You can also boost them again if you want to.
I bought both of these last month but haven't tried them out yet. My league season finishes tonight so I'll be trying one of them next week.
They were €15 each on Ali Express and have pretty good ratings in here.
I'll let you know how it goes but will be a few wks before I will review.

About Rakza Z, I never mentioned how it plays. It's not very fast but I find this a good thing as I'm still working on my loop technique. It has lots and lots of spin and control and that's all I need at my level as I can build my point and win it with the next shot when my accuracy is good.
I find it great for FH drive and fast pushes too. Service return and short game is good, lots of control once your used to it. Serving also good, lots of spin.
I have found that when my FH 'whip' is executed properly (like really properly) that there is speed there also. I have it in Max sponge so I don't feel any bottoming out. It definitely takes a bit of breaking in for the sponge but that's normal with a lot of rubbers.

I have high hopes for the Yinhe JA 3 and Big Dipper so I'm really hoping not to have to buy any more €45 sheets of Rakza Z. If one of them works like I hope I'll just buy 3 more sheets of that and be done for a few yrs 🤞😊

Quality control of ESN usually much higher than Yinhe so it is a balancing act for sure.

 

[Kopp]

You could try the Yinhe Jupiter Asia III or Big Dipper, they are factory boosted. You can also boost them again if you want to.
I bought both of these last month but haven't tried them yet, league season finishes tonight so I'll be trying one next week.
They were €15 each on Ali Express and have pretty good ratings in here.
I'll let you know how it goes but will be a few wks before I review.

About Rakza Z, I never mentioned how it plays. It's not very fast but I find this a good thing as I'm still working on my loop technique. It has lots of spin and control and that's all I need at my level as I can build my points and win it with the next shot when my accuracy is good.
I find it great for FH drive and fast pushes too. Service return and short game is good, lots of control once you're used to it. Serving also good, spinny.
I have found that when my FH 'whip' is executed properly (like really properly) that there IS speed in the rubber also. It will always be slower than the more exotic rubbers mentioned but you can win the point with it and I've managed it a few times V high level opposition.
I have it in Max sponge so I don't feel any bottoming out. It definitely takes a bit of breaking in for the sponge but that's normal with a lot of rubbers.

Thank you!

I have it in Max sponge so I don't feel any bottoming out. It definitely takes a bit of breaking in for the sponge but that's normal with a lot of rubbers.

This concept of bottoming out in table tennis has always confused me! I originally learned it was bad, so I tried using max thickness rubbers. However, I found I lost some control on harder shots when the rubber wasn't bottoming out.

Interestingly, on my other racket with a very cheap blade and 1.8mm Chinese tacky rubbers (medium and medium-soft), I seem to bottom out on all my hard shots, especially topspins. Contrary to what I thought, I actually find this beneficial! The blade seems to help "kick" the ball off the racket, and I have fantastic control and feel. I can consistently place the ball where I want.

 

[dingyibvs]

Thank you!

This concept of bottoming out in table tennis has always confused me! I originally learned it was bad, so I tried using max thickness rubbers. However, I found I lost some control on harder shots when the rubber wasn't bottoming out.

Interestingly, on my other racket with a very cheap blade and 1.8mm Chinese tacky rubbers (medium and medium-soft), I seem to bottom out on all my hard shots, especially topspins. Contrary to what I thought, I actually find this beneficial! The blade seems to help "kick" the ball off the racket, and I have fantastic control and feel. I can consistently place the ball where I want.

Bottoming out is a phenomenon where using the same motion but hitting harder, you only get an increase in speed and no longer in spin. Or more accurately, the tangential coefficient of restitution becomes relatively less. This causes the ball to take a more straight trajectory than expected, which combined with relatively less spin it usually resulting in hitting the ball into the net.

This phenomenon actually shows itself even with softer strokes, its just more pronounced with harder strokes. This is why thinner sponge for the same rubber leads to a lower "throw angle" with a normal loop and block action.

The issue really is that at certain power threshold, your equipment's characteristic suddenly changes. That's the hard part to adjust for. This is, however, balanced by a different phenomenon, which players sometimes refer to as "hitting into the blade". In Chinese it's described as "透版", or "through to the blade". Your shot quality also changes depends on whether your blade's quality is properly activated. On most services and brush loops, for example, you'd often intentionally avoid hitting into the blade.

A thinner sponge would allow you to hit into the blade more easily, thus making it easier to eliminate that type of sudden change to your equipment characteristics. If you have good technique, however, every shot is gonna hit into the blade, particularly if you have a stiffer one like say a TBALC as opposed to a flexier one like say the YSE or HL5. So for higher level players thinner sponge offers no positive and only negative.

 

[Sims33]

Thank you!

This concept of bottoming out in table tennis has always confused me! I originally learned it was bad, so I tried using max thickness rubbers. However, I found I lost some control on harder shots when the rubber wasn't bottoming out.

Interestingly, on my other racket with a very cheap blade and 1.8mm Chinese tacky rubbers (medium and medium-soft), I seem to bottom out on all my hard shots, especially topspins. Contrary to what I thought, I actually find this beneficial! The blade seems to help "kick" the ball off the racket, and I have fantastic control and feel. I can consistently place the ball where I want.

Yes, that's what bottoming out can do. It basically limits the power you can transmit from the rubber, limiting the spring effect from the sponge and leaves you with how much can be transmitted from a sheet of wood. It's therefore slower and can feel more controlled V Max sponge.
But, this will also limit how much spin you can put on the ball because the wood is throwing the ball out before you've finished your stroke and reducing your dwell time from what it 'could be' with more sponge thickness.
When you can control Max sponge you can have much more dwell time (rubber/sponge contact time with the ball) during the strike and this will impart more spin and speed.
Max 'soft sponge' is springier and takes more practice, especially in the short game.
Maybe going from 1.9mm to 2.1mm is the answer for a while? Then Max sponge later...

Basically bottoming out it is a sign you should have more sponge (or harder sponge if Max sponge already) for that particular shot because that stroke you are using can benefit from the increased dwell time you'll get.
And if you feel a lack of control with the Max sponge it just means more practice needed until your technique and feel allows you to control it. This is why slower wooden blades are better to start with, the feel is sooo important when still learning.

 

[z0uLess]

I went from H3 to Rakza Z and felt that it was much more controllable and consistent. However, I would love to try an even slower hybrid, since I play with a bit fast blade for my level. Has anyone exstensive knowledge about the differences between RZ and Glayzer 09c, or are there any other beginner friendly hybrids that play similarly to H3/RZ?

 

[OrsonBear]

What is the thickness of the MAX version btw ? 2.15 or 2.2mm maybe ? For Rakza Z.

 

[Sims33]

What is the thickness of the MAX version btw ? 2.15 or 2.2mm maybe ? For Rakza Z.

I've never measured and it's not stated.
Max means the rubber and sponge can be max 4mm thickness so I'd guess it's something between 2.2-2.3mm of sponge

 

[OrsonBear]

I've never measured and it's not stated.
Max means the rubber and sponge can be max 4mm thickness so I'd guess it's something between 2.2-2.3mm of sponge

Ok because Japanese sponge in max is like 2.1mm or 2.15mm generally like Max G-1 Or Tenergy !

 

[Sims33]

I went from H3 to Rakza Z and felt that it was much more controllable and consistent. However, I would love to try an even slower hybrid, since I play with a bit fast blade for my level. Has anyone exstensive knowledge about the differences between RZ and Glayzer 09c, or are there any other beginner friendly hybrids that play similarly to H3/RZ?

I would suggest that if Rakza Z is too quick for you then your blade is probably the issue.
The blade is the most important thing to get right because it essentially has the biggest effect on what you can get from any given rubber. A too fast blade means you are wasting the upper potential of any rubbers you use and it will also negatively impact your technique as you try to compensate for the speed of the blade.

 

[Kopp]

.. "hitting into the blade". In Chinese it's described as "透版", or "through to the blade". Your shot quality also changes depends on whether your blade's quality is properly activated. On most services and brush loops, for example, you'd often intentionally avoid hitting into the blade.

A thinner sponge would allow you to hit into the blade more easily, thus making it easier to eliminate that type of sudden change to your equipment characteristics. If you have good technique, however, every shot is gonna hit into the blade, particularly if you have a stiffer one like say a TBALC as opposed to a flexier one like say the YSE or HL5. So for higher level players thinner sponge offers no positive and only negative.

For beginner like me who still working on improving techniques, is bottoming out or "hitting into the blade" (透版) good or bad?

 

[Kopp]

Maybe going from 1.9mm to 2.1mm is the answer for a while? Then Max sponge later...

Yes I think so.

Basically bottoming out it is a sign you should have more sponge (or harder sponge if Max sponge already) for that particular shot because that stroke you are using can benefit from the increased dwell time you'll get.
And if you feel a lack of control with the Max sponge it just means more practice needed until your technique and feel allows you to control it. This is why slower wooden blades are better to start with, the feel is sooo important when still learning.

IDK. Even with thinner sponges and bottoming out, my shot still need some adjustments. So I guess I have to get comfortable with thinner sponges and improve my shots before going to max.

 

[dingyibvs]

For beginner like me who still working on improving techniques, is bottoming out or "hitting into the blade" (透版) good or bad?

You should work on the ability of using thin brush vs hitting into the blade at will. Both shots have their uses, and being able to execute them as needed will help you improve your consistency greatly.

 

[Kopp]

You should work on the ability of using thin brush vs hitting into the blade at will. Both shots have their uses, and being able to execute them as needed will help you improve your consistency greatly.

This makes perfect sense! I felt like I just downloaded a patch upgrade straight to my TT brain.

TYVM bro!