Lessons I Learned in Shanghai about Boosting and Equipment in General

[Lazer]

that is because of expansion in the first place

Absolutely, glued under tension tends to do this… Also the expansion during boosting will fatigue the sponge and thus shrink more than an unbooted rubber. But without the mechanical tension that takes place during play this process is very slow…

Cheers
L-ze

 

[Lazer]

I don’t have any experience with 41 or 42 but I tried 40,39,37.
One thing, I’ve noticed that I think harder rubber has more room for boosting.
I wonder are the pros boosting more than 3 layers, so they benefit from not just ability of harder hitting, also more boosted more live, more speed glue-ish effect with harder rubbers.

This is probably because harder rubber is denser and needs more before saturated.

But it’s not like speed glue where gas put pressure on the sponge from within but evaporated very quickly. A booster is consisting of mostly paraffin oil that will react the sponge and resolve it. This reaction is permanent. Then the mechanical process of playing fatigue the sponge until it’s dead. No voca needed.

Your booster is actually destroying the sponge so you need to take care not to use too much…

Cheers
L-zr

 

[JJ Ng]

I saw more 09C in the club I went (the head coach and the best provincial players in the training hall played with FZD ALC, H3N BS and D09c) but here's is an interesting chart

Isn't FZD ALC playing very similar to Viscaria and Timo Boll ALC?

 

[Aizen]

This is probably because harder rubber is denser and needs more before saturated.

But it’s not like speed glue where gas put pressure on the sponge from within but evaporated very quickly. A booster is consisting of mostly paraffin oil that will react the sponge and resolve it. This reaction is permanent. Then the mechanical process of playing fatigue the sponge until it’s dead. No voca needed.

Your booster is actually destroying the sponge so you need to take care not to use too much…

Cheers
L-zr

Thanks, I got it.
I also wonder, which is better(faster, gripper, easier etc) to play
1- 39 hardness boosted until 37 (lets say 2 time)
2- 42 hardness boosted until 37 (lets say 4)

 

[JJ Ng]

This is probably because harder rubber is denser and needs more before saturated.

But it’s not like speed glue where gas put pressure on the sponge from within but evaporated very quickly. A booster is consisting of mostly paraffin oil that will react the sponge and resolve it. This reaction is permanent. Then the mechanical process of playing fatigue the sponge until it’s dead. No voca needed.

Your booster is actually destroying the sponge so you need to take care not to use too much…

Cheers
L-zr

I agree with you. I think after boosting it a couple times, it is time to throw the rubber away. The shrinkage issue is the worst with the Tibhar Evolution series. I have transfer MX-S and FX-D between a couple blades. Each time I put a layer of booster to expand the sponge so I can put them on a new blade and stretch it out to cover the whole surface of the blade. then a couple weeks later, the top/tip of the racket, I see gaps now (although tiny). It does not affect my play. After all, how hits the ball at the top/tip 3% of the racket all the time?

As for C-1 and Rakza 7 soft I don't notice much shrinkage issue.

I have no, oddly enough, shrinkage issue wit hurricane. Go figured.

However I really do like the revolution series, with softer sponges. I really like EL-P and FX-D. Once I wear down, I might try EL-S or EL-P. I really do like EL-P a bit more than FX-D. Or I should stop buying so many rubbers and just stick with C-1 and EL-P for a while. I do not like MX-S and MX-P. Too fast for my backhand. Long story short, the shrinkage issue does not bother me.

I think at some point, all of us need to reach our own conclusions about cost and peak performance. I find Tenergy to be too fast and uncontrollabe. But yet EL-P and FX-D are faster, than say my C-1, with more catapult effect and they are controllable for me. They are definitely slower than Tenergy and maybe Dignics 05. At the end of the day, I enjoy playing with EL-P and FX-D so why not buy it and make it last 3-4 months? Why do I need to buy Tenergy or Dignics 05 and have them last for a year? I can afford revolution series and change is every 3-4 months or a bit longer. We are playing table tennis to play well, beat other players and enjoy the game. At some point, if you can afford it, enjoyment of the game with the right rubbers that fit wit your style of play is much more important than debating 1) Butterfly is the best and all pro's use Butterfly (or at least 1/2 of them), so why should you not use Butterfly?, 2) Revolution series durability sucks so you should not use it (if you take care of your rubber it should last ta least 3-4 months), 3) Butterfly rubber last forever so you ultimately save more money (why do I care? I cannot control Tenergy rubbers. I find my hurricane and sanwei target national to be "better," in my opinion compared to Dignics 09c on my forehand. Dignics 05 is too fast for me to control it. So getting Butterfly product will make me not enjoy the game as much. and everyone knows I love Rozena! Rozena is like Tenergy lite with lots of control. I like it very much).

 

[JJ Ng]

i can't answer that precisely

I have played both with Ma Long and DHK before.
In fact DHK's once just 2 weeks ago (her exact racket)

If I saw pro star version feels like a different rubber to prov/nationals that I use, i think it is a fair statement.
the quality in the top sheet and sponge is just way better.

Hi Tony, you know I respect your opinion.

TT11 carries WCQ and Ma Long forehand rubber for $130. With 30% bulk discount it will be $100. I have never spent THAT much money per rubber.

Is it really that much better?

I recently just switched from H3 neo commercial orange sponge 39 degree to H3 neo provincial blue sponge 39 degree. I agree with other posters. Orange sponge, once boosted well, it is very reactive at the low end of speed and the catapult effect shows up quite early. But top end stroke speed is limited. When I switched to H3 provincial blue sponge, the boosting process does not dome the blue sponge as much as the it does to the orange sponge. I find that interesting because I used orange sponge for like 4 years before the switch. And when first put on, I find blue sponge to be "kind of dead" even after boosting. However, 2 months into the switch I like blue sponge a lot. Yes less catapult but that also means I have more control Then when I do my traditional chinese forehand, the top end speed of blue sponge is excellent!

So I just recently switched to blue sponge so my cost for oranges sponge was about $20 sheet. now blue sponge provincial is costing me $50. I cannot imagine myself paying $100+ for WCQ's version or Ma Long's version!

 

[Robin0910]

i can't answer that precisely

I have played both with Ma Long and DHK before.
In fact DHK's once just 2 weeks ago (her exact racket)

If I saw pro star version feels like a different rubber to prov/nationals that I use, i think it is a fair statement.
the quality in the top sheet and sponge is just way better.

Is the difference between Pro and national larger than between national and provincial?

 

[lodro]

if you can afford it, enjoyment of the game with the right rubbers that fit wit your style of play is much more important

Absolutely.
It is the same also with blades. Why insist buying and playing with $ 350 blades when we find that a nicely made $35 blade suits us better and we are more comfortable with it.

 

[Lazer]

Thanks, I got it.
I also wonder, which is better(faster, gripper, easier etc) to play
1- 39 hardness boosted until 37 (lets say 2 time)
2- 42 hardness boosted until 37 (lets say 4)

I’m not sure you can boost a 42 sponge so it becomes 37. I’m not sure how much softer it gets, but I don’t think it’s much. I’d say 4 layers of booster is too much. I would use 2 or 3. But it also depends how thick they are and I am always boosting light.

Cheers
L-zr

 

[lodro]

I don't feel the need to, I believe the sponge would become way too soft, too mushy.

Just an update, I applied 1 layer of seamoon to a red Rozena piece and glued it onto a blade next to a standard piece.
1) the sponge did not turn into mush, actually there is hardly any difference in the feel of the rubber.
2) The bounce on the boosted rubber piece increased quite significantly.
This is of course simply "information" and to some, increased bounce of a rubber will be desirable and to others not at all.

 

[Zeen]

Hi Tony, you know I respect your opinion.

TT11 carries WCQ and Ma Long forehand rubber for $130. With 30% bulk discount it will be $100. I have never spent THAT much money per rubber.

Is it really that much better?

I recently just switched from H3 neo commercial orange sponge 39 degree to H3 neo provincial blue sponge 39 degree. I agree with other posters. Orange sponge, once boosted well, it is very reactive at the low end of speed and the catapult effect shows up quite early. But top end stroke speed is limited. When I switched to H3 provincial blue sponge, the boosting process does not dome the blue sponge as much as the it does to the orange sponge. I find that interesting because I used orange sponge for like 4 years before the switch. And when first put on, I find blue sponge to be "kind of dead" even after boosting. However, 2 months into the switch I like blue sponge a lot. Yes less catapult but that also means I have more control Then when I do my traditional chinese forehand, the top end speed of blue sponge is excellent!

So I just recently switched to blue sponge so my cost for oranges sponge was about $20 sheet. now blue sponge provincial is costing me $50. I cannot imagine myself paying $100+ for WCQ's version or Ma Long's version!

I agree. DHS with the weird quality issues is just overall too much a hassle when compared to bty or esn rubbers.
That's why I stick with hybrid rubbers. But if you want longevity, betten choose something not already boosted to the max by the factory (like K3) but instead something you can adjust the boost to your own liking.
That way I get 8 months out of xiom china guang.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Hi Tony, you know I respect your opinion.

thank you

TT11 carries WCQ and Ma Long forehand rubber for $130. With 30% bulk discount it will be $100. I have never spent THAT much money per rubber.

Is it really that much better?

personally, I won't spent that much of money
I don't know much people spending that kind of money

the ma long one I tested, was from a top kid in Taiwan, who hired a Chinese coach and got it from Ma Long Beijing coach. the kid can afford it easily
the DHK one is her own racket given to her friend, of which I hosted (that friend) earlier this month. We can say, it is unlimited supply.

I recently just switched from H3 neo commercial orange sponge 39 degree to H3 neo provincial blue sponge 39 degree. I agree with other posters. Orange sponge, once boosted well, it is very reactive at the low end of speed and the catapult effect shows up quite early. But top end stroke speed is limited. When I switched to H3 provincial blue sponge, the boosting process does not dome the blue sponge as much as the it does to the orange sponge. I find that interesting because I used orange sponge for like 4 years before the switch. And when first put on, I find blue sponge to be "kind of dead" even after boosting. However, 2 months into the switch I like blue sponge a lot. Yes less catapult but that also means I have more control Then when I do my traditional chinese forehand, the top end speed of blue sponge is excellent!

So I just recently switched to blue sponge so my cost for oranges sponge was about $20 sheet. now blue sponge provincial is costing me $50. I cannot imagine myself paying $100+ for WCQ's version or Ma Long's version!

In regards with the wtt-emoji post I put, of which few of the guys there (winners of youth contender) uses H3 Blue sponge. All of them use provincial versions.
They are the one i'm saying that change every 2 to 3 weeks, either with time, or bubbling or competition, which ever comes first.

I ask their coach why don't change to national, they said, with the amount of changes (they need 25 sheets per year for 1 racket), the cost factors and thirdly - the difficulty in getting large volumes... they settle for provincial.
there is maybe 15 guys of the 25 or so in that team that uses this, so per year, per racket, they need to source around 400 sheets. Not to mention probably all the international players have at least 2 to 3 rackets. So that is 1000 sheets a year.

That is 1 team (the no 1 team in the Country).
On the contrary, when I met and spoke with DHS staff, they were shocked to see the amount of H3 Provincials going into Taiwan per year. They said Taiwan is one of their biggest provincial rubber markets. I said, I know all about it.

So coming back, high level players choose provincial for many reasons.
Will it help if they use pro version - yes. but pro version supply is really terrible.
I know some of the kids can afford it, but supply chain probably can't keep up.
I think stability is more important than a better rubber.

Will it help you? maybe it will, maybe you won't play much better.
I won't be spending that amount of money for my own racket
I guess if it isn't my own money, then that is a different story

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Is the difference between Pro and national larger than between national and provincial?

I would say, yes.

I didn't spend enough time with the Pro rubbers to really compare them in detail.
but the one I gotten to try of DHK was around 3 to 4 months old
the rubber was so comfortable to use.
and it wasn't only me, a couple of coach/high level player also felt it was pretty special - and thought it was freshly boosted (of which it wasn't)

 

[longle]

So coming back, high level players choose provincial for many reasons.
Will it help if they use pro version - yes. but pro version supply is really terrible.
I know some of the kids can afford it, but supply chain probably can't keep up.
I think stability is more important than a better rubber.

Will it help you? maybe it will, maybe you won't play much better.
I won't be spending that amount of money for my own racket
I guess if it isn't my own money, then that is a different story

that is true, for intermediate players H3 Provincial BS is probably the best Chinese FH rubber in terms of price/quality/durability. My current H3 Pro BS is 3 months old which underwent several reboosting and reglueing and it's still playing as good as new. I gave my previous H3 Pro BS (4 months old) to my friend and he is still using it to this day, still tacky and bouncy.

Maybe H3 NT will gain me a bit more power but I don't think it worth the extra price. No I won't ever use Pro version because of its ridiculous price (they sell it for 110$ here)

 

[mcfly]

yet another topic of H3 and boosting
i will say this, based on my own experience using the Star H3:
it is way better than Provincial

try it, and you'll agree with me

PS: Where is Igor?!

 

[lodro]

No I won't ever use Pro version because of its ridiculous price (they sell it for 110$ here)

If you can,and have two identical blades, could you try the Rxton 3 Pro and compare it with the H3 pro please.
It only cost a tenner, also features blue sponge . 🤣

 

[brokenball]

I played at the Yuanshen Sports Center many times. It is in Pudong, Shanghai about a mile from the Marriot we stayed at. I never noticed anybody boosting there. I have played in few other places before we found the Yuanshen Sports Center.
Boosting is a gimmick. If the rubber is always changing, then how can you be consistent with it? It is like using new different rubbers all the time.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I never noticed anybody boosting there. I have played in few other places before we found the Yuanshen Sports Center.
Boosting is a gimmick.

You obviously didn’t visit a proper place then. Lots of amateur places in China and not everyone boosts or change rubbers monthly.

The places where you will find those, is not open for outsiders (including Chinese amateurs)

You might find some places that have some semi pros or high level amateur. They boost too.

You can’t say it is a gimmick when you haven’t seen it before. But I guess you can only believe what you see

 

[Lazer]

I played at the Yuanshen Sports Center many times. It is in Pudong, Shanghai about a mile from the Marriot we stayed at. I never noticed anybody boosting there. I have played in few other places before we found the Yuanshen Sports Center.
Boosting is a gimmick. If the rubber is always changing, then how can you be consistent with it? It is like using new different rubbers all the time.

An in unboosted rubber changes it’s properties as well as it deteriorates…

Cheers
L-zr

 

[skibiditoilet]

Donic Desto F1 just refuses to die in China. It's among the first ESN Tensor rubbers released circa 2/1998 (on the LARC at least since 1997/10/10). I cited back in 2017 a Tieba thread from 2015 that a sizeable crowd was still using the original F1 and how people are willing to try out new stuff but will ultimately stick to the ones they believe are the best, and Tieba threads about it still pop up from time to time in 2024.

2024
多尼克f1的寿命是多久？ (How long does Donic F1 last?)
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/9016914020
多尼克f1重量 (Weight of Donic F1)
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/8996874740
多尼克F1有假货吗 (Does Donic F1 have knockoffs)
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/8949460217
2023
Donic f1是真的拉垮 (Donic F1 really sucks)
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/8371069797
2022
多尼克f1重吗 (Is Donic F1 heavy)
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/8103254855
2021
多尼克F1为什么这么耐打？简直神胶 (Why is Donic F1 so durable? Simply a divine rubber)
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/7423867469

with or without speed glue?
would i need to boost it?
seems interesting to try for RPB. I am using h3 37 right now