Is any current top player better than prime Ma Long (2015-2017)?

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Too bad Harimoto is not so dominant in this day and age.
In terms of WTTC and World Cup, Harimoto has done ok-ish for 2022, 2023 and 2024 compared to 2021 (beginning of the Paris 2024 cycle). FWIW, he started his climb back to the top as I expected after the transition from high school to college [11/27/2021 at 3:28pm, 10/08/2022 at 1:56pm]. It's easy to forget that he won't turn 21 until this June and has already beaten every core CNT player at least once other than XX. Last but not least, not enough credit has been given to his wins at WTTC 2022.

OTOH, the road has been VERY bumpy for LYJ since Tokyo 2020.
 
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Ma long was and is really insanely strong.

What is interesting is that his game really isn't super "modern". He improved his BH over time but still is a very forehand oriented player who sometimes uses some tricks to cover his relative BH "weakness" (still has an amazing BH but not like FZD, ZJK and some others).

To dominate with that style in the plastic ball era is quite amazing.

Maybe ZJK had a more modern and complete game but ma long just has amazing mental strength on top of his great forehand and doing all the "little stuff" well.
 
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In my opinion, Zhang Jike at his peak of development was stronger than Ma Long. This is the ideal tennis player - very fast, strong legs and equal strength and technical perfection in forehand and backhand play. The beauty of Zhang Jike's game is simply on another level

IMHO, ZJK required the smaller ball, his game style wouldn't have survived the larger ball without injury because his forehand didn't have the stable base with the lower body that makes Ma Long and Fan so impressive. His wrist usage is much more active, definitely more spin oriented than Ma Long.
 
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Ma long was and is really insanely strong.

What is interesting is that his game really isn't super "modern". He improved his BH over time but still is a very forehand oriented player who sometimes uses some tricks to cover his relative BH "weakness" (still has an amazing BH but not like FZD, ZJK and some others).

To dominate with that style in the plastic ball era is quite amazing.

Maybe ZJK had a more modern and complete game but ma long just has amazing mental strength on top of his great forehand and doing all the "little stuff" well.
I think the plastic ball actually made it easier to dominate with that style though there are tradeoffs. By reducing the spin dimension, it made lots of backhands that were inadequate in fast attack mode with the older balls far more serviceable because the blocking and countering dimension became easier against the people who had dominant fast backhands. Lots of player went from having weak backhands with the old ball to serviceable backhands with the new ball. I get that the plastic ball made it harder to win with only one weapon, but it made it harder to dominate with the backhand as well.
 
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I think the plastic ball actually made it easier to dominate with that style though there are tradeoffs. By reducing the spin dimension, it made lots of backhands that were inadequate in fast attack mode with the older balls far more serviceable because the blocking and countering dimension became easier against the people who had dominant fast backhands. Lots of player went from having weak backhands with the old ball to serviceable backhands with the new ball. I get that the plastic ball made it harder to win with only one weapon, but it made it harder to dominate with the backhand as well.
Looking at ML BH against LGY last week I would not call it "serviceable" - those cross court counters in to the wide FH were outstanding!
 
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IMHO, ZJK required the smaller ball, his game style wouldn't have survived the larger ball without injury because his forehand didn't have the stable base with the lower body that makes Ma Long and Fan so impressive. His wrist usage is much more active, definitely more spin oriented than Ma Long.
The 40 mm ball replaced the 38 mm ball in 2000. Zhang Jike entered the top 10 in 2010. Do you think that 10 years of playing with a 40 mm ball is not enough to change an athlete’s technique for a new ball?
Regarding Zhang Jike's "not stable base forehand", just look at his game with the strongest defender Joo Se Huyk.
 
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Looking at ML BH against LGY last week I would not call it "serviceable" - those cross court counters in to the wide FH were outstanding!
I wasn't speaking about ML per se, but again, if you watch ML vs Wang Hao or ML vs Zhang Jike encounters with the old ball, ML wasn't that spectacular even with his good backhand. First strike with heavy spin with the older balls were more devastating and defence was not as easy. I am just pointing out that the ability to counter and the reduction of first strike as a knockout blow gave an advantage to people with relatively less aggressive backhands, even as it increased the need to be able to play with balance on both sides. It also reduced the potency of forehand aggression, but the forehand still has more power than the backhand and is less spin dependent for its power. I suspect that Wang Liqin would have been borderline unbeatable with the new ball had he played today, even with his lousy backhand, because his consistency would have had a major upgrade.
 
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The 40 mm ball replaced the 38 mm ball in 2000. Zhang Jike entered the top 10 in 2010. Do you think that 10 years of playing with a 40 mm ball is not enough to change an athlete’s technique for a new ball?
Regarding Zhang Jike's "not stable base forehand", just look at his game with the strongest defender Joo Se Huyk.
Do you seriously think the 40+ ball we use today is the same generally as the 40mm ball that was used before 2014 and after 2000? Whether it is the size or the ABS material, this new ball just doesn't play the same.
 
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IMHO, ZJK required the smaller ball
You wrote about this yourself. Not about the material of the ball, but about its size. And now you link to the material?
I started playing with a 38 mm ball, then I played with a 40 mm celluloid ball, then there were many types of plastics and they were all different, so I understand what we are talking about.
 
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Clear victory!
Moreover, Ma Long was in excellent shape.
There are nuances to this. First of all, that was the "poly ball", which is not quite the ABS ball. Secondly, this was the beginning/continuation of many years over which ZJK would have injuries, whether it was the ball, or just congenital issues with his body, I leave to anyone to guess. But when I say that the forehand technique is different, ML just plays out of bigger leg/hip movement that ZJK on forehand. There are lots of videos that show this, it isn't anything controversial. ZJK could play more with his wrist and such technique was much more serviceable with the older balls. If they hadn't changed balls, I think ZJK would still be doing well today.
 
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IMHO, ZJK required the smaller ball, his game style wouldn't have survived the larger ball without injury because his forehand didn't have the stable base with the lower body that makes Ma Long and Fan so impressive. His wrist usage is much more active, definitely more spin oriented than Ma Long.
ZJK then beat the world's strongest defender YSH, who was also in excellent shape at the time, solely due to his forehand.
 
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You wrote about this yourself. Not about the material of the ball, but about its size. And now you link to the material?
I started playing with a 38 mm ball, then I played with a 40 mm celluloid ball, then there were many types of plastics and they were all different, so I understand what we are talking about.
Okay, if you want to win on language, feel free to do so. But if you think that ZJK's technique would have made him equally injury free with the current balls, okay, I disagree. Nothing annoys me more than someone taking a very narrow view of what someone else is saying when the substantive point being made is very obvious. Find matches of ZJK playing with the new ball that show that you feel he would have maintained the same level. Or maybe you feel the ball had nothing to do with his injuries? Nor his technique?
 
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ZJK against choppers with ABS ball. IIRC, he just came back from his hiatus for Hong Kong Open 2018.

Hong Kong Open 2018
ZJK vs Ma Te

Zhibo.TV event
ZJK vs Hou Yingchao
 
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